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punkusmartyrus 34 ( +1 | -1 )
any better moves? board #2493084 This is a recently completed game of mine that was seemingly hopeless after my blunder of 3...Bc5?

my question is on move 13; could I have made a better choice than 13...Rb8? or was it doomed regardless? what move would you have made?
premium_steve 78 ( +1 | -1 )
I think 3...Bc5 is a small mistake, but black can survive....
A bigger mistake may have been trading off your dark-squared bishop with xc3 after white played a3. that made your g7 h6 f6 squares very vulnerable.
maybe instead of Bxc3 you should play your bishop back to defend these weak squares with Be7 or Bf8

The position at move 13 looks difficult for Black.
i would have tried 13...Rg8 though to save material. After 14.Qxh7, 14...Kf8 holds onto your material, but it's still a very bad situation.
Your opponent's dark-squared bishop is very strong and your king looks weak in the center. i don't see much of a way to defend for you. maybe you can try trading your knight for his dark bishop with Nd5.
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punkusmartyrus 32 ( +1 | -1 )
Excellent I think both of those points were great. I realize that Bxc3 is bad now, but i wouldn't have been tempted to do so if I never moved Bc5 to begin with. I was so used to playing the giuoco piano that I didn't pay attention. 13... Rg8 14.Qxh7, 14...Kf8 sounds like a decent alt. reply as well. thanx a bunch.
i_play_slowly 12 ( +1 | -1 )
Better choices After 1 minute of analysis, Chessmaster 9000 suggests that there are ten superior alternatives to 13...Rb8, the best being 13...Rg8.
punkusmartyrus 19 ( +1 | -1 )
nice work. looks like premium_steve hit the nail on the head. does anyone know if chessmaster 8000 has the analysis option?
jjw109 123 ( +1 | -1 )
Early mistake with 5. ... bxc6 id=punkusmartyrus , have a look at the difference between 5. ... bxc6 vs. 5. ... dxc6.

5. ... dxc6 immediately opens a half-file for your Q and the diagonal for your white bishop. As such, it prevents white's pawn pushes to d4 (Bxd4 regaining the pawn with tempo) or e5 (simply moves N to g4 with a lot of tempo). 6. d3 is not much better (again N moves to g4 with a lot of tempo). A lame attempt to chase the B away with 6. Na3 loses quickly with 6. ... Bxf2+ (and a resultant king hunt). Best white response is thus 6. Be2, which can be followed with 6. ... Qd4, 7. O-O (effectively forced) Nxd4, 8. Nxd4 (again effectively forced) Qxd4, and you've recovered the lost pawn and are in pretty good shape. 6. ... Ng4 in response to 6. Be2 looks interesting and doesn't look too bad.

5. ... bxc6 allows e5 with added tempo, with later d4 allowing a strong pawn linkage, which you suffered against. Regaining the lost pawn ain't gonna happen now. It also hampers development of the white B and your Q. Positionally, this move hurt severely.

premium_steve gives you some good insight on other aspects. Hope this all helps. Good luck.
punkusmartyrus 29 ( +1 | -1 )
top notch you've illustrated this mistake well. it seems obvious now how many negatives there are w/ bxc6. I've only recently overcome the novice dogma of never breaking center to an outside piece when it can be avoided. dxc6 it's a relatively new concept to me that I now use against the ruy lopez too. thanx.
gambiter 11 ( +1 | -1 )
3...Bc5 3...Bc5 is not a blunder but its not your best move. After 4.Nxe5 u can play Bd4 5.f4 Bxc3 6.dxc3 Nxe4.

dmaestro 93 ( +1 | -1 )
Agree with gambiter, 3 B...c5 is not best, but 4.nxe5 was no killer, it didn't even lose a pawn! Your big, and losing mistake, was actually your fourth move, virtually giving up the pawn, letting white double your pawns and exchange a knight that was in the way of the weak white king pawn, allowing your opponent to advance the KP with tempo, when you could have easily just won it back, or even tried 4...Qe7?! which would have caused white some difficulties. Only after your blunder on the fourth move does white actually have a winning advantage. Regardless of what you played on your 13th move, the game was lost unless your opponent made horrible mistakes, since your king side is fatally weakened, your opponent controls the black squares, and you have no scope for counterplay.
i_play_slowly 116 ( +1 | -1 )
After eight minutes of analyzing, Chessmaster 9000 gives White the advantage with a score of 1.14 after you moved 5...bxc6. If you had moved 5...dxc6, however, White's advantage would only have been .38. Perhaps your decision was guided by the precept that pawns should always capture towards the centre. Such precepts always have their exceptions, however, and one exception seems to suggest that it might be better for the d-pawn to do the capturing, even if it doesn't capture towards the centre, when doing so can open a valuable file for your queen.
After twenty six minutes of analyzing, Chessmaster 9000 suggests that 4...Nc6 was in fact the best move that you could have made, and that 5.Nxc6 was not White's optimum reply. Your second best option would have been 4...0-0.
You say, "I was so used to playing the giuoco piano that I didn't pay attention." Therein, perhaps, lies the original problem. This opening was the Vienna Game, not the Giuoco Piano. The map in your mind did not correspond to the territory. Hence, the loss of your king's pawn.