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desertfox 46 ( +1 | -1 )
Alekhine: revisited Werewolf and anybody else interested in the articles Alekhine wrote for the nazis, go to www.anusha.com/alekhine.htm.
Maybe this will clarify things more.
By the way, I am going to listen now to Alekhine's own voice, recorded talking abou chess at
www.chesscafe.com/skittles/skittles.htm.
Sorry but I don't know how to make a link with orange letters. The user bd=game_number codes are too much for me.

Desertfox
myway316 47 ( +1 | -1 )
He wrote them As i mentioned in another thread on this same subject,it has been proven,beyond all doubt,that Alekhine did write these articles. In 1956,after the death of his last wife,Grace Wishaar,the hand-written drafts of these articles,in Alekhine's own handwriting,were found amonst her effects. It will be a debatable point,for all time,whether or not,Alekhine wrote these articles of his own free will,or under Nazi duress.
desertfox 27 ( +1 | -1 )
very good myway316 I wanted werewolf to know this. Maybe he wrote them under duresse, but his denials were not accepted by the chess world. His death was symbolic. He chocked on a pieace of meat! Sad departure of a great player, whose personality was not up to his chess playing standards.
tonlesu 26 ( +1 | -1 )
Desertfox Perhaps he choked to death on a piece of meat and perhaps he didn't. I read one report where he died of a cerebral hemorrhage.

Actually, his denials were accepted by the British Organizers of the Hastings Victory tournament. He was invited to play in this tournament.
lordnguyenvo 34 ( +1 | -1 )
desertfox Can you give this a rest already?Most of us know Alekhin from his great ability in chess,not because he wrote some articles for Nazis(millions of people support for Hitler at that time).Fischer was an anti-Jews himself but he still is my favorite chess player.
By the way,I dont see why his death has anything to do in here.
tonlesu 20 ( +1 | -1 )
lord whatever This is a chess site. We talk about chess and chessplayers here. If you dont like it dont read it. But please dont make idiotic statements like the millions for Hitler bit.
lhunter 305 ( +1 | -1 )
More on Alekhine (and Capa) This continues from the Capablanca thread and I thought it would be more appropriate here.

The following URL...

www.worldchessnetwork.com/English/chessHistory/salute/kings/alekhine.php

...might be of interest to the discussion. The above site is pretty good for RT chess and quite informative. Suggest you check it out.

"The two great controversies surrounding Alekhine are the charge of collaboration and the claim that he avoided a return match with Capablanca. Concerning the charge of collaboration, Alekhine’s most notable act while still a free agent was refusing to allow the French team to play Germany at the Buenos Aires Olympiad, which was interrupted by the outbreak of World War II.
<IMHO, this speaks volumes about Alekhine's questionable ethics, before he was captured by the Nazis>

Concerning the charge of avoiding a rematch, the truth is (surprise!) somewhere in the middle.

In a sentence, a rematch would have taken place in 1930 or 1931 had Capablanca not sought (for good reasons) a postponement. As revealed in correspondence between A. and C., Alekhine received Capablanca’s formal challenge on November 14, 1929, which he accepted in a letter of November 28, 1929, and in which he also fixed the start of the match between October 15 and December 15, 1930. Capa put down a deposit of $500 and tried unsuccessfully to organize a match for those dates in the United States. In a letter to Alekhine of June 1, 1930, the Cuban requested that the match be moved to early 1931; and Alekhine promptly agreed in a letter of June 18, to a new date of February 15, 1931. Capablanca then dropped a bombshell. In a letter dated June 18, 1930 - the same date as Alekhine’s letter - he wrote, “I find a clerical error was made in my letter of June 1, 1930. My proposal for the match is for the Winter 1931 - 32.” Which is to say, for a starting date NOT in early 1931 but a year thence in early 1932. Alekhine responded on July 3, 1930, stating that he would not entertain future challenges from Capablanca unless they were “formally supported by a Federation or backers known in the chess world, in each case guaranteeing the financial side of the match.”

The bottom line: Alekhine was willing, if not eager, to play in 1930 or 1931."

<as an aside...>

"No grandmaster, past or present, played more chess games than Alekhine. In an era when grandmasters paid the rent with simultaneous exhibitions, Alekhine and Capablanca were the top simul-givers. By one reckoning, the grand total for Capablanca of games of all kinds is 14,334 - a figure that can be compared with Alekhine’s total of 3,693 known simultaneous games in Czechoslovakia alone. Other Alekhine numbers include 993 games on his U.S. - Canadian tour of 1923-24 and a bare minimum of 1,320 games on his American and Far Eastern tour of 1932-33. Adding these three numbers, one gets the alarming total of 6,006 games - a total that includes no games played in Western Europe, the main base of Alekhine’s operations. A reasonable estimate of the total number of ganes played by Alekhine in simuls, tournaments and matches would be between 20,000 and 25,000."
lhunter 16 ( +1 | -1 )
desertfox Thanks for giving us the link (in English) on the Alekhine articles....and especially the link on the rare audio interview with the great AAA. The latter was a treat to listen to.
werwolf 39 ( +1 | -1 )
desertfox Firstly I advice to learn writing of my nick- it's WERWOLF not WEREWOLF.
Secondly.(For especially stupid who can't read or understand what they have red). As I said it before that I DONT CARE WAS HE NAZI OR NOT. But you cant deny that he was a great player. It's more important.
And actually, if he was such evil as you're wanting him to be then why Soviets allowed Botvinnik to challenge Alehin to match?
lordnguyenvo 86 ( +1 | -1 )
to tonlesu no offense but do you even understand what was i talking about?'cause i think my point was that this is a chess site and we should talk about chess or chess players(which is what you said).but talk about chessplayers mean that talk about their chess ability,not about their personal stuff(ex:he wrote articles for the Nazis ,he died because he choked on a piece of meat-these stuff have nothing to do with chess).
I really want to see why my statement about Hitler is idiotic to you.If he wasnt supported by the german people in the first place,then he didnt make it to be a dictator.and if there arent many people follow him,how could his army was able to crush all europe(except england)?
By the way,my english may not be as good as yours so please read carefully before say anything.
tonlesu 37 ( +1 | -1 )
Well The articles we were referring to (anti jewish nazi rhetoric) shook up the chess world when they came out---now thats chess!

The death of one of the greats of all time is of interest to many chess enthusiast---now thats chess!

That millions supported Hitler in world war II---now that aint chess!

Perhaps idiotic was the wrong adjective---I apologize.
lordnguyenvo 7 ( +1 | -1 )
thanks for reply tonlesu i think we both are right (from different angles) so its cool.
bluebabygirl 63 ( +1 | -1 )
to all although i am quite young i have read and look at much concerning Alekhine, seems to me to talk about his personal stuff is just irrelevant!! after all how many other players do you guys discuss citing their personal behavior instead of their great CHESS ABILTY ?? OK YES fischer EVERYBODY DOES THE SAME TO HIM !! but it is still irrelevant when a chess players record should stand alone seperate from his personal and or "away from the board behavior " !!! i simply say Alekhine's chess record speaks for itself and he was a VERY GREAT CHESS GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!YOURS BLUEBABYGIRL
tonlesu 18 ( +1 | -1 )
babyblue One of the questions we are discussing is did the German govt put pressure on Alekhine?

One of your questions is did the Russian govt put pressure on Bronstein?

What makes you feel your question is relevent and ous is not?
desertfox 157 ( +1 | -1 )
Werwolf The word in English for a man-wolf is WEREWOLF, so i wrote it automatically, but it seems you can't even spell your own name correctly. The past of read is read (spelled red but written read and not READ).
As far as Botwinnik is concerned, the Russians wanted a red Russian to beat a White Russian. The best way to prove the superiority of the "homo sovieticus" over the man representing the old decadent nobility of the Tzar.
You invite me for a game with the line "I hope you get burned". This is a Nazi attitude. Enough Jews burned during nazi occupation. You are lucky you are far away from here. Your lawyer's training will not help you in court if someone sues you for such talk. Your racist attitude is between the lines, but I am a translator, specialist in reading between the lines. Anyone can open a dictionary and find words, reading hidden meanings between the lines is much
more difficult.
I declined your offer since you don't behave like a civilized person who wants to be a lawyer. I read all the articles for and against Alekhine and not only the ones reflecting my views. You refused to read what Spielmann said or what Alekhine wrote in those infamous articles. Lawyers have to read every bit of evidence, don't they teach you that in law school? I even wrote here about that rare recording of Alekhine's voice. He said you don't need a good memory to be a good chess player. Bobby Fischer is still alive, ask him, who could remember entire games by heart, what he thinks about such a statement.
werwolf 38 ( +1 | -1 )
desertfox Werwolf is other possible way of writing that word - look at dictionary.
About nazi attitude - looking like that today some jews still searching for enemie' s despite of the end of Wordl War 2. About burning i meant that i wanted you to defeat over the chess board - only such suspicious person as you can think that I'm nazist.
werwolf 21 ( +1 | -1 )
About Botvinnik He had better chances win on their match (if such match would happened), but dotn forget that Alehine was more expoerienced and still strong player, despite problems with his health.
desertfox 85 ( +1 | -1 )
Werwolf Like always you are wrong the name is spelled either WEREWOLF OR WERWULF!
I am a translator not you, to the best of my knowledge.
Suspicious? not at all. Many people here in Israel will react like me to such a lack of sensitivity in using the adjective 'burning' you. The memories of the Holocaust don't pass away so fast. Did the Armenians forget how the Turks massacred 1.5 millions Armenians starting in 1915. Hitler said in the 30s: "Who remembers the Armenian genocide today?". He was wrong as everyone knows.
You better learn to express yourself accurately, like a lawyer should. Today the entire world speaks English, so its a big plus to know that language well.
All the wars I (and not only me) fought are with the purpose of never having another Holocaust and having a country of your own, not having to be a 'wandering Jew' all our lives.
I am playing less now, so I don't accept invitations anyway.
brucehum 122 ( +1 | -1 )
Play chess not war We should try to read between the lines, and not be so radical about other people's ideas and expressions. If not, it will be almost impossible to communicate any ideas without someone being offended. Maybe we all have to start writting only in politically correct terms? That sounds like hypocrisy to me.

If we want to be nit-picky about grammar and idiom, lets first remember that many people's mother language is not english, and even in people who have english as a mother tongue you find horrible grammar mistakes.

A small note about "werwolf", the word. It does exist, it is german for werewolf. I don't know in Latvia how it is written...

We should keep to chess... once we start with wars and the holocaust, I am just waiting for someone to mention the Palestinian 'holocaust'... and from then on it all degenerates too quickly into discussions of what is terrorism and what is state terrorism, and what is fighting for freedom, and if the USA...

To be frank, sadly, no one's history is free of mistakes.

This message is not only about Desertfox and Werwolf, it is also about babybluegirl, who mentions one thing, and Toneslu, who has read something different than what she said, and about everyone who posts, in general.
premium_steve 60 ( +1 | -1 )
just to comment on the 1936 mp3 interview you linked to.
i thought it was fantastic to hear! very entertaining! unlike alekhine though...i always think most people of average intelligence could be great chess-players, painters, or whatever, if they wish. with lots of practice and keen interest, i would like to think humans are capable of very good things.
my favorite quote from the interview: "for myself i prepare always for my match by leading a quiet, healthy country life, and to relax - you may laugh - by playing ping pong".
absolutely hilarious. thanks, desertfox.
werwolf 32 ( +1 | -1 )
desertfox I'm really tired of reading your nit-picking and your personal attack's. I'm not going to take part in any discussions touching opponents. I didn't see any constructive arguments by your side. Please learn to argument more constructive. I have no time nor desire to take part in something like that.



desertfox 32 ( +1 | -1 )
werwolf Some people found the rare interview with your here Alekhine very interesting. By the way, there is a site dedicated to games with Alekhine's defense only. Maybe that will interest you? I found it this morning but don't have the address, but if you want to find it, you will.

Desertfox