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Posted by kansaspatzer
schoolfundingservices.org

6/07/2008
14:03:34

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Subject: Philidor Position?

Message:
Recently I studied the Philidor and Lucena Positions. Although the Lucena is straightforward enough, I understand the basics of the Philidor but am not sure about how to apply it in an actual game situation or when exactly it comes up. I just finished this game, and I think that around move 66 I missed a chance to utilize this drawing resource. Can anybody tell me if I did?

gameknot.com


Posted by bonsai
schoolfundingservices.org

6/07/2008
15:23:12

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You are right you reached Philidor's position (or something very much like it) several times and could have drawn easily.

The position 60.Rxf4 should be an easy draw, not sure why you gave away your f6 pawn, even so it was all still easily drawn, because your king was on the promotion square. With 67...Ra6+ you nicely set up a third (sixth) rank defence (=Philidor's position) which easily holds the draw.

69...Ra7 is still a draw, but why bother with taking the rook of the 6th rank?? Just wait until his pawn has advanced far enough to not give his king any place to hide from checks and then go to the first rank and check him.

In the same sense 71...Ra6 was the right move. 71...Ra5 looses - white could have played 72.Kf6, but he missed that, after 72.Rh7 you could once more have held it with 72...Ra6.

After missing that the defence became more complicated. 75...Re1 would still have drawn for black, but it's harder to do. 75...Kf8 looses. However white doesn't really know what he's doing 77.Ra5 is a pointless move that throws away the win, the rook is great on the 8th rank and one should just play 77.Kd6 to advance the pawn (and if Rd1+ then Ke7).

After 86...Kf7 you've once more got a nice third rank defence, but you once more go for the wrong kind of continuation with 87...Ra5 and this time white punishes it properly and doesn't let the win slip away, again.


Posted by kansaspatzer
schoolfundingservices.org

6/08/2008
02:04:22

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Message:
Thanks for the detailed analysis. A pure Philidor position, then, is reached when the pawn is on the sixth rather than fifth rank? That is what had thrown me off - once I was at move 70 or so, I assumed that I had already missed my chance.
———
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Posted by marinvukusic
schoolfundingservices.org

6/08/2008
02:31:49

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Wikipedia is your friend

Message:
en.wikipedia.org

Much better than asking on a forum IMHO
———
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Posted by bonsai
schoolfundingservices.org

6/08/2008
02:49:14

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Message:
The position with your king on/next to the promotion square, your rook on the 6th rank as black (or 3rd rank as white) and his pawn on the 5th rank is what is called Philidor's position (or the third rank defence). The way to draw it is to keep the rook on the 6th (3rd) rank until he advances the pawn beyond to the 6th rank, then the rook goes to the first (8th) rank and keeps checking the king.
———
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Posted by ionadowman
schoolfundingservices.org

6/08/2008
17:54:26

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marinvukusic -

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-... but asking on the forum is much more fun. bonsai's responses look pretty good to me, at that.
Cheers,
Ion


———
The f-pawn, part 2: is f5 the answer here? — Does White have a better option than moving the f-pawn? Continuing our look at the chess equivalent of route one football – the f-pawn advance... RB Well, let's see what happens when we push – 1 f5. The answer comes back faster than Manchester United on the break, not much. Black is under no compulsion to take the pawn and can instead centralise with 1…Nd4 or even 1…Qd4, or start getting the queen's rook into play with 1…Rac8, and 1…Nb4, hitting the d-pawn, would be irritating. All right, let's try to be logical. What's wrong here is that even if we could swap off pawns on the f-file, the f1-rook would remain blocked by the bishop. Let's ...
Posted by marinvukusic
schoolfundingservices.org

6/09/2008
04:35:02

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Yeah, but...

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... Wikipedia has really excellent chess articles, much better than anything any of us might write on the forum. So that should be the first resource IMHO.

Of course if the purpose of the topic is fun that forum is better :)
———
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Posted by ionadowman
schoolfundingservices.org

6/09/2008
12:57:41

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Marin...

Message:
... I certainly have no quarrel with the Wikipedia article(s) in question, having followed up the link you gave earlier. And, aware of these now, one has an easily accessible (and readable) on-line resource for the questions raised here.

But maybe I shouldn't have said "fun" - rather that a discussion of the question is a more ... social way of exploring the topic. Here, it is a more engaging way of studying this kind of endgame.
Cheers,
Ion