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jumpcueman 71 ( +1 | -1 )
Scotch Game Opening I am currently an avid user (of a meagre 1300 rating) of the Scotch opening 1. e4 e4 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4.... I am trying to work out the best ways to play this opening. I have struggled to find much literature on this opening and the various variations...

So far what I have run into is:
1. e4 e4 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4....exd4 4. Nxd4 Nxd4 5. Qxd4 Here your queen is out early which seem to me to be against the opening rules.

1. e4 e4 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4....exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3

A couple of stronger players have played

1. e4 e4 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Qh4
and
1. e4 e4 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Qf6

Does anyone have particular experience with this opening that could share some insight into the lines to play and the lines to avoid?

Regards,
Ryon.
jumpcueman 361 ( +1 | -1 )
Additional info I have found this that shows the various lines and what they are called - could anyone offer any comments on any of them?

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch gambit"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "11"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4 Bb4+ 5. c3 dxc3 6. bxc3 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch gambit"]
[Black "Cochrane Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "13"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4 Bb4+ 5. c3 dxc3 6. bxc3 Ba5 7. e5 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch gambit"]
[Black "Hanneken Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "18"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4 Bb4+ 5. c3 dxc3 6. O-O cxb2 7. Bxb2 Nf6
8. Ng5 O-O 9. e5 Nxe5 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Goering gambit"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "7"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. c3 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Sea-cadet mate"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "19"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. c3 dxc3 5. Nxc3 d6 6. Bc4 Bg4 7. O-O Ne5 8.
Nxe5 Bxd1 9. Bxf7+ Ke7 10. Nd5# *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Goering gambit"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "10"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. c3 dxc3 5. Nxc3 Bb4 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Goering gambit, Bardeleben Variatio"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "12"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. c3 dxc3 5. Nxc3 Bb4 6. Bc4 Nf6 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Lolli Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "6"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 Nxd4 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Cochrane Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C44"]
[PlyCount "13"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 Nxd4 4. Nxe5 Ne6 5. Bc4 c6 6. O-O Nf6 7. Nxf7 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "8"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Blumenfeld attack"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "11"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. Nb5 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Blackburne attack"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "13"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Nge7 7. Qd2 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Gottschall Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "24"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Nge7 7. Qd2 d5 8.
Nb5 Bxe3 9. Qxe3 O-O 10. Nxc7 Rb8 11. Nxd5 Nxd5 12. exd5 Nb4 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Paulsen attack"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "13"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Nge7 7. Bb5 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Paulsen, Gunsberg defense"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "14"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Nge7 7. Bb5 Nd8 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Meitner Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "13"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. c3 Nge7 7. Nc2 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Potter Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "9"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Nb3 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Romanishin Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "10"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Nb3 Bb4+ *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Tartakower Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "11"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. Nd2 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Mieses Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "11"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. e5 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Horwitz attack"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "9"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Qh4 5. Nb5 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Berger Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "21"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Qh4 5. Nb5 Bb4+ 6. Nd2 Qxe4+ 7. Be2 Qxg2
8. Bf3 Qh3 9. Nxc7+ Kd8 10. Nxa8 Nf6 11. a3 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "11"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Qh4 5. Nb5 Bb4+ 6. Bd2 *

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Scotch"]
[Black "Rosenthal Variation"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "C45"]
[PlyCount "18"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Qh4 5. Nb5 Bb4+ 6. Bd2 Qxe4+ 7. Be2 Kd8
8. O-O Bxd2 9. Nxd2 Qg6 *
deputy1 14 ( +1 | -1 )
Scotch Game Try Chessbase or ChessLab for up to date games on this opening or if you want go in to the past try Chessgame.com for researching further Regards John Hamer
jumpcueman 6 ( +1 | -1 )
re:deputy1 Thanks John, Ill check out those sites.

Ryon.
bonsai 59 ( +1 | -1 )
1. e4 e4 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Qh4 is an extremely sharp and complicated line, while I don't really know anything about it I have noticed that there has recently been a book solely dedicated to this one particular line.

After 1. e4 e4 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nxd4 5. Qxd4 it's not much of a problem that your queen is out early, because it's not easy for black to use this fact (in particular he doesn't have a move like Nb8-c6, because he has already swapped of this knight). This position is probably *slightly* better for white, because he has a certain space advantage.
spongebob666 84 ( +1 | -1 )
Wrong Question If you are 1300 you should not be studying openings much.

I did study openings when I was 1300 -- most do. It is possible to gain a little bit from this if you ask questions about why moves are the book moves, rather then blindly studying. So you are studying openings correctly (good for you, most don't), and will gain a bit from it. However, your time could be more productively employed in other areas. This is because 1300 players make enough mistakes in the middle game that any opening advantage is essentially irrelevant.

I suggest reviewing your games to see where you went wrong. Another good thing to do would be to practice tactics problems. Chess Tactics for Beginners from Convekta (a cd with problems to play on your computer) would be very good for you.

Good luck!
v_glorioso12 14 ( +1 | -1 )
try try using the scotch gambit, i used to play it and i loved it, and its real easy for black to go wrong, you just gotta keep initiative
jumpcueman 21 ( +1 | -1 )
thanks! Many thanks everyone for your contributions. I have the seirewan book on chess tactics - I will spend some more time on this. Also will try the scotch gambit!

Ryon.
ccmcacollister 62 ( +1 | -1 )
In your first line, 4...Nxd4 is just considered a mistake. The Qd4 is an asset rather than a liability, being very actively placed and the Nc6 which might have displaced it is already gone. Cant get more centalized than this! :)
***
I didnt see a line.. . sorry if I overlooked it. Anyway it is from your second line given. 5.Bc4 instead of 5.Nc3 after 4...Nf6 has been an entertaining and aggressive line. 5....Nxe4 6.Bxf7+ and this concept is also found in the Smith-Morra Gambit vs the Sicilian. I'll be right back to add a game link with an example. And there are more examples in the dbase at GK.
ccmcacollister 69 ( +1 | -1 )
Game Link is ... for board #1662315
***
I also like the Goring Gambit a lot. And the Scotch Gambit too. But lately have taken to playing into the Scotch, in blitz games especially, by going thru the Center Game 1.e4 e5 2.d4 !?
Conceivably they might try 2...Nc6 for trying to make it a Nimzovich Defense transposition. But thusfar everyone has played the expected exd4. So I play 2.Nf3 and it can transpose to regular Scotch lines ... but what I really like is when they play 2...c5 3.Bc4 etc and leave that great gaping hole at d5 after I gambit a pawn with c3 sooner or later. Gives them the chance to succumb to that..c5 temptation
}8-)
ccmcacollister 48 ( +1 | -1 )
Sorry, forgot to say one final thing but it seems rather important. In the game Link given you may note that my opponent there was (at least then if not now) playing only Scotch Game Challenges. So point (1) would seem a very good choice for you, jumpcueman , to see games of for a consistent picture of one players approach. and (2)depite that fact of his familiarity, was perhaps somewhat surprised by the Bc4 line. Or less familiar.